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Brandon Held - Life is Crazy
This podcast is designed to help with suicide prevention. That is the #1 goal! This is also a Podcast of perseverance, self-help, self-Improvement, becoming a better person, making it through struggles and not only surviving, but thriving! In this Podcast the first 25 episodes detail my life's downs and ups. A story that shows you can overcome poverty, abusive environments, drug and alcoholic environments, difficult bosses, being laid-off from work, losing your family, and being on the brink of suicide. Listen and find a place to share life stories and experiences. Allow everyone to learn from each other to reinforce our place in this world. To grow and be better people and help build a better more understanding society.
The early podcast episodes are a story of the journey of my life. The start from poor, drug and alcohol stricken life, to choices that lead to success. Discusses my own suicide ideations and attempt that I struggled with for most of my life. Being raised by essentially only my mother with good intentions, but didn't know how to teach me to be a man. About learning life's lessons and how to become a man on this journey and sharing those lessons and experiences with others whom hopefully can benefit from my successes and failures.
Hosting guests who have overcome suicide attempts/suicide ideations/trauma/hardships/difficult situations to fight through it, rise up, and live their best life. Real life stories to help others that are going through difficult times or stuck without a path forward, understand and learn there is a path forward.
Want to be a guest on Brandon Held - Life is Crazy? Send Brandon Held a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/brandonheld
Brandon Held - Life is Crazy
Episode 42: Lannette West Encore - The Cycle of Abuse
Lynette returns to share her intensely personal journey through domestic violence and explain how breaking the silence became her path to healing and freedom. She recounts surviving a 20-year abusive marriage while protecting her children and eventually finding the strength to leave.
• Lynette grew up watching her father abuse her mother, normalizing violence in relationships
• Our childhood experiences shape our expectations and tolerance for unhealthy relationships
• The escalation of abuse from arguing to physical violence to life-threatening situations
• Being abandoned by family after becoming pregnant compounded Lynette's isolation
• Despite multiple incidents requiring police intervention, Lynette stayed for 20 years for her children
• Children inevitably witness and are affected by domestic violence despite parents' attempts to shield them
• Lynette's powerful perspective that sharing trauma stories isn't "airing dirty laundry" but necessary healing
• Breaking the silence about abuse provides a physical and emotional lightness that brings peace
• The courage to speak openly about trauma helps normalize these conversations for others
If you're experiencing domestic violence, please reach out for help. You are never truly alone, and speaking your truth is the first step toward healing.
BrandonHeld.com iPad drawing for Life Coaching clients
Welcome, welcome back to Branded Held. Life is crazy and I had a great idea and Lynette decided to take me up on it, and so we have her back for an encore performance. And I say great idea because I didn't share this with you off air, but you're actually two downloads away from being my most downloaded episode ever for a podcast. All you have to do is promote it a little bit more and then you'll be like you'll be in first place. I appreciate that distinction, thank you, yeah you're, we'll get on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I thought why not do an encore performance? There's there's plenty more that we could talk about and there's, and we're going to have you, as we just discussed, we're going to have you be on the show pretty much regularly, going forward for a while until you decide you don't want to do this anymore and you get sick of me. So today we came back to talk about a new topic and I don't really know if introductions are necessary. Maybe someone's listening to this who didn't listen to our previous recording together. So just for that, if you want to go ahead and introduce yourself again, lynette, just in case someone didn't hear our previous podcast.
Speaker 1:Sure, Thanks, Brandon. I guess I'm I don't want to say famous, maybe infamous is a better word for my role on TLC's MILF Manor season two.
Speaker 1:A shameless plug here. It streams on Max. It will live forever in the digital world. I participated in that last year it aired about this time last year and I'm a 52-year-old professional single mom. I have a now 28-year year old his birthday was yesterday and an 18 year old daughter, so I've got one of each a son and a daughter and I work in IT data storage, specifically cloud services, and I've been doing that for 13 and a half years, and I was in telecommunications for 15 years before that. Yeah, Not that this is my resume or anything, but it is a big part of my life and who I am, and sure.
Speaker 1:And I've also just been through a lot of shit and I didn't really realize that it was a lot until I made my first therapist cry and then I was like, oh man.
Speaker 2:I didn didn't even know that. That's news to me, oh wow.
Speaker 1:Have you ever? You've not ever made your therapist cry.
Speaker 2:No, I sure haven't. They've made me cry a few times and I haven't made them cry, so that's wild, all right. And you've been married how many times?
Speaker 1:Oh, one and one and done.
Speaker 2:One and done so you're saying you'll never get married again.
Speaker 1:Not unless he has a lot of assets. I need to attach my name to.
Speaker 2:That's the curse right there, saying you'll never do it again. That's exactly when it happens.
Speaker 1:It's a contract. I will see it as a contract. That's true. I'm just not interested in doing it. It's funny because growing up I wasn't one of those little girls that dreamt of her wedding day and a white gown and all these people like I never fantasized about getting married or having children or having a family. I always fantasized about having a big mahogany desk with an intercom on it where I could push it and tell people what to do. I wanted to be the boss.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be in charge.
Speaker 1:I wanted isn't it weird? I don't know that it's weird.
Speaker 2:Maybe for our time it's weird because we're the same age. But yeah, that's probably why you've only been married once too. I think that youthful mindset of what you think life should look like also plays a role into how your life ends up turning out. I always thought that I would be married. Whether or not I'd have kids was something I questioned or never really put a lot of thought into. Yeah, that was definitely going to happen, but I have three sons. Now I'm on my fourth marriage and I think just having that mindset of I'm going to be married was part of why I am where I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely You're right. We all have a vision of our life and in many ways we are thrown in that direction, whether subconsciously or consciously. And I was raised by a single mom, so it's not. It wasn't uncommon for me to think of myself as alone, because I always saw my mom alone. My mom would go to my functions or my sporting events alone, and she would go places alone, she would go to dinner alone, she would do everything alone, and so it didn't seem peculiar to me it's almost again. That was my kind of default setting. Like I didn't seem peculiar to me. It's almost again. That was my kind of default setting like I. I didn't see how to, like you were saying earlier, compromise and cooperate.
Speaker 2:I'm just used to doing it the way I want to do it, getting my way and fuck you if you don't some people are still like that and that's why they struggle and they try to have relationships and they still maintain that attitude. And that's pretty hard to have both of those. What's funny is I am comfortable being alone, I'm comfortable being by myself.
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 2:I also recognize how wonderful love is. Love is amazing. It's the greatest thing when you have a really strong, solid, good relationship and someone loves you and they support you and they back you like no one else can, and when you can also give that to someone and you can be their rock and you can be their support system, that's also a great feeling. So I just I never wanted to just let that not be a thing in my life, so I just wanted to keep trying until I got it right, and it feels like I finally got it right.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful and, yeah, that's a really good point, and part of it may just be where I am in my journey. Do you know what I mean? I'm just not meant to be there, yet I think we all are creatures that want companionship, and need companionship for sure.
Speaker 2:That's a fact, yeah, but I'll tell you what, though?
Speaker 1:The longer I'm alone, the harder it's going to be, that's true.
Speaker 2:To bring somebody into the fold, they'll have to truly look at you for who you are. There won't be a lot of compromise, and almost all my relationships have been full of compromise and I'm a pretty easygoing person overall. Yeah, do I have things that I have a hard stance on? That are deal breakers for me? Sure, who doesn't? We all should To me. People always talk about oh, I just want this unconditional love. That is so unrealistic. Who is going to love a partner unconditionally? So you can just cheat on me, you can beat me, you can spend all my money, but I'm going to love you unconditionally. No, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I agree yeah.
Speaker 2:So you might be wondering why am I talking about all this relationship stuff? So we got into the trauma last time about childhood and the things that we went through and how it has carried us through, even to who we are today, and the healing that continues to be required and how it really just never goes away. It's just something you have to work with and live with. One of my biggest trauma points, as everyone knows, is my mother getting beat and abused. So I have the childhood point of view, the child's point of view, of seeing this happen. And now, lynette, you've actually had to deal with that in your life. You've been the one that's been being abused, and that's what we want to talk about today. So you can give the mother's point of view, if you will, since you have two children who had to deal with you going through that as well. Go ahead, just start us off with your story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just to frame it up a bit, you know my parents were very violent and my father was very violent towards my mother. So I grew up and that was unfortunately normalized and that bled over into the relationships with my siblings too ironically because I'm five and a half years younger than the next sibling and the first four were within five and a half years. And then that gap, and then me, and it's funny because to this day even my brother Alan will say do not mess with Lynette.
Speaker 1:I can remember when I was in sixth grade, getting into a fight with my middle sister who is what? Seven, eight years older than me and kicking her ass. There was such a rage and a violence about me and it was unchecked emotion and obviously, as I matured I realized you can't go around beating up everybody. That's not going to work for you. But the first time that I really had a violent romantic relationship was with my ex-husband and to this day he will deny it. I've looked him straight in the eyes and I'm like I was there. I know you did this and he would say, no, I did not. There have been times where I'm like, am I losing? Did that really happen? And then I'm like, yes, that really happened. I didn't dream it. I wasn't on drugs when it happened, like I know exactly what happened.
Speaker 1:But my, my ex and I we were not living together or really even together when I got pregnant. To be honest, I had just started my first full time corporate gig and so I was doing the nine to five and he was still in Chapel Hill living the party life which I get, because that's what I was doing prior to that and we hadn't spoken for a few weeks and I found out I was pregnant. And then, long story short, we decided that we were going to try to make a go of it and we moved in together about a month before I was due to deliver my son and it was. It was rocky at best just our relationship in general. And then when we moved in together, everything was just amplified. He had a hard time staying home at night, he had a hard time keeping other women out of the car and out of pictures, like.
Speaker 1:I found some undeveloped film one time. I was such a little PI I was terrible compulsive and I got the film developed and it was of him and another woman. And I got the film developed and it was of him and another woman. And then I found this box of cards and letters from this one person in particular who I suspected he had been seeing the whole time, which obviously he was, because there were very explicit materials and stuff in there which confirmed that he had been seeing other people while he was supposed to have been with me. So I knew, going into this relationship, that he wasn't exactly loyal. Okay, that's on me, yeah. Yeah, this wasn't something that just suddenly popped up, but on this particular occasion. He had not come home the night before and while he was out and about, and this was bad. Okay, this is how old I am. I'm going to date myself.
Speaker 1:I paged him on his pager yeah, that's when we had the pagers, where it was just at the time where you doctors only had pagers, but then normal people started having pagers right and he never came home.
Speaker 1:So I thought you know what, get that son of a bitch. And so I packed up. We were living in a condo, like a two bedroom, like townhouse, and my son was five months old. This was around September of 1997. And I packed all his shit up. I threw it all in a pile in the middle of the living room because the lease was in my name, because I had the job, I had the credit score Right and technically it was my house, it was my space, and so I packed all his stuff up. I even threw in a couple towels and kitchen supplies and all his hang up clothes and the wire coat hangers that becomes important later, all piled in the middle.
Speaker 1:And I was like waiting for him to come back, because I was going to tell him get your shit and get out Like I'm done. And didn't really think that through. Because what did I expect him to come back? Because I was going to tell him get your shit and get out Like I'm done, and didn't really think that through. Because what did I expect him to do? Did I really think that he was going to leave? And I, honestly, I didn't really think about what his reaction was going to be. I just knew at that moment that I needed to get him out of life. And he came home what's not happy? And so an altercation ensued and I just I mostly just remember him throwing me around like a rag doll. And I am not a petite woman. I've often been described as an Amazon because I am 5'8", 150 pounds.
Speaker 2:Also.
Speaker 1:I'm not a petite woman and he's six feet, six foot whatever. And, yeah, a lot of cussing, a lot of screaming, a lot of yelling. And it's interesting because, as I look back on it, I reverted into the role that my mother had played. I wasn't going to just sit there and say, ok, I'm sorry, I engaged, I attacked, and say, okay, I'm sorry, I engaged, I attacked. I as much as he threw me around, I was punching and biting and screaming and calling him all kinds of things and fuck you now, fuck you all of that stuff. So I was not helping the situation. I was certainly was escalating it.
Speaker 1:And one of the things I remember the most is when he I was in the bedroom and he threw me across the dresser and it was my mother's dresser actually, that she had given me, and years before, and it had the mirrors on the back that were like bolted in, like the old timey stuff, and he threw me across it and it I threw me so hard that it stripped the bolts off the back of the mirrors Wow, cause I had to repair that later and he was like pick up my shit, this is what the hell are you doing, put my stuff back, I'm not leaving, and so the more he said he wasn't leaving, the more I wanted him to leave. So it just, it was just combustible, and I remember him throwing me down on the clothes and he probably didn't even think that was hurting me, but every time he did that the wire hangers would scratch me and poke me and so I was bleeding not profusely, but you know later when the pictures were taken.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It was something to behold. And there was enough of that going on. And this continued over until the next day. So at some point during that evening tempers settled and we more or less called a truce and I went into my son's room because we had a bed in there along with his crib, and he never slept in his crib anyway, it was more for decoration.
Speaker 1:And so I was in the bed in the second bedroom with Sheldon and as I was sleeping I was suddenly abruptly awoken and I realized, oh, it's morning, because it's lighton. And as I was sleeping I was suddenly abruptly awoken and I realized, oh, it's morning, because it's light out. And he had grabbed me by the back of the head, by the hair, and drug me from a dead sleep, out of bed and drug me back into the living room, throwing me down again on the pile of clothes, saying pick this shit up. And I think that was the first time I was really like scared, like the night before when all of that I was like this is adrenaline pumping, I was like this is.
Speaker 1:This isn't anything unfamiliar to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But when I saw his rage the next day, I think that's when I started to become a little more concerned and a little more defensive. And then, yeah, things ramped up fairly quickly again. And the next thing I remember we were in the bedroom and I was laying in the floor next to the bed and he had shoved me down and he was, he straddled me and he grabbed me by the neck and he was choking me and he said bitch, if you want to die, I'll kill you. And I remember thinking, fuck, this guy might kill me. And then I immediately said to myself, uh-uh, I'm not going out like this. No, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, inexplicably, he stopped. Now, it wasn't a prolonged like I passed out or anything. He probably choked me for about 10 or 15 seconds. It was enough to cut my airway. It was enough for me to know, oh shit, like he's in control of me.
Speaker 1:That's scary, and I had gotten away at some point prior to that and called my friend Karen to come get me. I was like you need to come. I was afraid to call the police, I'm not sure why. Maybe part embarrassment, maybe part, I don't know. I just didn't think to call the police. And so she came and I heard her at the front door and then I heard my ex husband screaming and carrying on and so I knew he was distracted and I knew I had a ride. So I was like I'm getting the hell out of here. So I was in the bedroom. Still I opened the window. Getting the hell out of here. So I was in the bedroom.
Speaker 1:Still I opened the window, I kick it out and it was a one story condo but the back was graded down so it was more like a 10 or 12 foot drop off the back. Yeah, and I entirely misjudged it. But I opened the window, I kicked out the and I landed on my left side on my feet and my femur invaded my knee joint, hit my tibia and split it. So I had a tibia plateau fracture. Had no idea I'd hurt myself, except when I went to stand up my knee just gave and I just was limping and I was like what is wrong with my knee? Why is my leg not working? Had no pain at all, that's how much the adrenaline was pumping.
Speaker 1:And so I ran around the end of the townhouse and ran to the parking lot and I got my friend's attention. She put me in the car and she's we're going to the hospital. And I'm like why? She's, my God, look at you Like I'm a mess, my knee like swelled up to the size of basketball.
Speaker 1:And so we went to the ER and obviously they took one look at me and called social services in and a lady came in and handed me a book that I still have, by the way. It's called why Does he Do the Things he Does? And she was counseling me and and that was the first time I was like am I an abused woman? What are you talking about? No, that doesn't apply to me. Like I didn't think of myself that way. And that was our first real physical altercation. He had some aggressive behaviors previously, like when we were dating. He thought I was in the apartment with somebody and he kicked the door down. That was like the most violent he had gotten with me prior to that there was really no other indicator that he was going to be like that until it happened.
Speaker 2:All right, so there's a lot to unpack there.
Speaker 2:First of all, let me say yeah First of all, let me say I'm glad you made it through it and you're still alive and still here, because when you were telling the story to me the first altercation when he came home and his clothes were packed and you guys were going at it back and forth as much as I think a man should never, ever, ever, lay his hands on a woman. I don't care what anyone has to say. You can physically restrain someone. If they're attacking you, you can do other things besides actually attacking back. But you were in a place there where it didn't seem as dangerous.
Speaker 2:But when you started to tell me that he pulled you out of the bed while you're asleep, my first thought was, oh my God, he could kill her. He could kill her. And so then you go into the story and how he choked you and then, for whatever reason, he didn't finish and he didn't kill you. Thank God, you got through that and you made it, and you're here to talk about this today. God, you got through that and you made it, and you're here to talk about this today and then talk about the gaslighting that's going on. To talk to you Like it, it never happened and it never existed, is just. It's wild to someone like me who's? I'm someone that's honest and I own my mistakes and I I fess up if I did something wrong and something I shouldn't have done. So to gaslight someone like that just unbelievable to me.
Speaker 1:All right To this day. It didn't happen. Yeah, so I'm making it up Lynette's crazy. She makes up shit Like you can't believe her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah that. And they people will definitely play that narrative if they can get away with it. So you end up going to hospital, you end up getting help. Did you let him back in your life? Did he convince you that, hey, I'm never going to do this again? Or did he even not try that hard. You just wanted to be a family. So you just let it slide.
Speaker 1:Those are great questions and again, to frame this a little better, I need to back up for just a second.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:My ex-husband's African-American.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And so my family from Western North Carolina. I had to go over to Good. I'm sure.
Speaker 1:They did not know we were dating. I had mentioned him to my mother, so my mother knew of him, but not in the context of a romantic relationship. My mother knew of him, but not in the context of a romantic relationship, and so I did not tell her I was pregnant until I was like six months pregnant. And I remember the phone conversation. She was in town, in Chapel Hill. She wanted to come see me and have dinner and I said, mom, there's something I need to tell you before you see me, because I hadn't seen her in a while.
Speaker 1:I'd seen her at graduation and I was only that was in December and I'd gotten pregnant in September or October I guess, and so I wasn't very big and pregnant. I was able to hide it. And then I said, by six months I was showing and I told her I was pregnant and she said, oh my God, that's not a problem, lynette, we can take care of that, that's no big deal. And I was like no, mom, you don't understand. And I told her how far along I was and she said who's the father? And I told her, and her exact words were that Black boy.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:And I said, yes, mom, and she said she paused and she said you just need to have an abortion. And I said, mother, I can't do that, I'm not doing that. And she said you are dead to me.
Speaker 2:No, she didn't.
Speaker 1:And she hung up the phone.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:And I didn't talk to her again for two years, but I knew that was coming. I'm not stupid.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So I had gotten the title to my car from her, like in the months prior, because I knew, once she knew what was going on, that she would disown me. So I prepared for that as much as I could. But even preparing in logistical ways emotionally to be abandoned like that was tough because I'd already been abandoned by my father. So in some ways it was in line with what I was expecting out of life.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that was tough. And as for many flaws, as my mother has, the one thing she's never been is someone that has judged me for anything I've done or ever threatened to cut me out of her life or not have anything to do with me. I know this is going to sound silly when I say it, but she, in ways she was almost too supportive, almost like I could do no wrong, right. So any fight I was having with I don't know, a girlfriend, a wife, a friend, whatever, she always had my back. She was always on my side, and I don't know if that was good or not. Maybe sometimes she should have been more. Hey, you should handle this way or do, but anyway. So when I hear of parents like your mother just being just outrightly oh, you got pregnant by a Black man, so I'm going to have nothing to do with you, that kind of stuff blows my mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, black man, so I'm gonna have nothing to do with you that that kind of stuff blows my mind? Yeah, and in some ways it blew my mind, but in other ways it did n't?
Speaker 1:it was on point as far as what I was expecting. So then.
Speaker 2:So basically yeah I had nobody, that was yeah, yeah. So you felt alone, alone, yeah, that's where, that's where I was going. So so you had nobody at this point, and even as bad as that was, he was still someone you had over nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because my siblings and I were pretty much estranged as well. I had a sister, my middle sister, sharon, who I'm now very close with, but at the time she was in Chapel Hill. She was going to school at Chapel Hill and at Duke. The whole time I was at Chapel Hill and I saw her one time. The layers of dysfunction here are just tremendous. But I knew I was on my own. I've always known that I've been on my own. When the 72-hour hold was over, he came home and I was there. I had a cast from my ankle to my ass. It took a day or two for the swelling to go down before they would cast it, so I might've still been in an air cast actually. And I was sitting on the couch and he walked in with his mom. He didn't even look at me, he just went straight back to the bedroom and took a shower. We never spoke of it again.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, ever. So was that the last time it happened?
Speaker 1:No, I will say, though, it did not escalate from there. Obviously, if it escalated, I'd be dead.
Speaker 1:But, there were additional altercations and I had learned by this point you don't retaliate or hit or kick back or bite, because you'll go to jail too. So I never, I would never engage anymore, and he wouldn't hit as much, as he would just throw and restrain and control. And yeah, so there were a couple more 50 Bs taken out. Those are restraining orders in North Carolina for domestic situations. And then during our divorce I had another protective order against him because he threatened to kill me in front of my daughter. So that was tough. But as far as the physical altercations went, they did not ramp up. And, mind you, I was with him for 20 years and this was like year three or year two when this happened.
Speaker 2:I have never so. First of all, my longest relationship ever is 12 years and never at any point in that relationship was it as bad as just your first year or two years, wherever that was for you. So to make it 20 years from there is just mind blowing to someone like me. I can't even believe you made it that far.
Speaker 1:But it wasn't pretty, because after that initial altercation I never had any ounce of love or respect for him again. I saw him more as a means to an end and I really had the attitude of I've made my bed, now I must lie in it. This is what I deserve, because this is what I've done.
Speaker 1:And try to make the best of it. Try to make the best of it. And, to my mother's credit too, worth noting, she passed away in June of 2019. We were estranged because she had once again dismissed me from her life and I hadn't spoken to her for a year when she died. So that was a repetitive thing, rinse and repeat and it also applies to my oldest sibling too. So, anyway, it's like at some point you just come to expect it and it's that big of a deal anymore.
Speaker 2:Well, the continuous trauma in your life, though, is wild. I also have had continuing life trauma with different things that have happened, but I'm sure you were too. I was always getting help with a therapist, or hell. I've been in the mental hospital a couple of times.
Speaker 1:I've been in the mental hospital a couple of times, but it's just time. But there was this unwavering commitment to just plow ahead. I didn't feel like I had a choice but to continue. There was certainly the suicidal stuff that we've talked about before that crept in periodically, but once I had my son, then it's almost like I had to take that off the list, damn it because I couldn't exercise that because it wasn't about me anymore.
Speaker 1:Right, it was now about him and I had to take care of him. I had to work as hard as I could, make as much money as I could and take care of him, and so that became my focus. And then, some years later, I was in my early 30s and I wanted another child. And I'm going to be really transparent here and people are going to judge the shit out of me and that's okay. But this is my thought process, because we had broken up and gotten back together a couple of times and I made a decision to get back with him after 9-11 because I wanted another child. I didn't want another baby daddy. I knew what I was getting with him. I felt like I could manage it. He did have a job and made money, and that was his redeeming characteristic, because if he was not contributing to the household financially, I wouldn't have tolerated any of that. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:No, that's not the first time I've heard that. I'll tell you something crazy. I don't know if I've ever really told people this my first son's mother. We were divorced and had been divorced, I don't know. I think he was six or seven. I had already been remarried again and divorced again, and she actually approached me and said I want another baby, but I don't want a different dad, so would you give me another baby? She actually approached me and asked me that. So that's not the first time I've heard that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's wild though.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's one thing when you're like still together, it's another thing when you've moved on.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I know Right. She did a lot of wild things. I told you off air. She asked me not to be a part of my son's life when he was newly born. Just her thought process to me was just unbelievable. And that was just another case. I can't believe you think you're going to come to me and I'm just going to be like, okay, let's have another baby together.
Speaker 1:But as sad as it is and as strange as it is, I can understand the rationale behind it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I bet you do. That's what. As soon as you were talking about it, I knew where you were going. Actually, when you just said I'm going to be judged for this, I knew right there what you were going to say.
Speaker 1:I knew it, so I'm just being honest, that was the process and we made. My son is a beautiful kid, he's healthy and I was like we make pretty kids and I really wanted a daughter and I was blessed with one. There were instances after Grace was born. The last time it happened once we had moved to Cary and we were living in I call it affectionately the big house, and it was like the dream house that I say I built. But he showed up and signed the papers let's be real Like he had nothing to do with the design or picking out anything Like. He was like, yeah, as long as I had a basement, he didn't give a shit. So that house meant a lot to me. But once I was ready to let go of the house, I think I was ready to let go of him as well.
Speaker 1:And there was an altercation where I don't even remember how I found out this time that he was cheating on me. Usually I found it through email, but I don't specifically remember. I just know her name and I knew it was a familiar name. So I had called her and I'm like what the hell are you doing Still messing with my husband? We've been through this girl she's. He told me you were divorced. I'm like no, and you believe what?
Speaker 2:he said, yeah, you didn't even check that information. Really girl.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, and I pulled him down to the basement and I said we need to talk and I called him out. I was just like, look, I talked to her. I was like I wasn't even that emotional, I was just very matter of fact about it and that might have been more disturbing to him than when I would rage because he's oh shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because when you rage, it shows you care If you're not raging. Yeah, yeah, because when you rage, it shows you care, care right If you're not raging yeah, I had zero fucks to give I was just like whatever I was.
Speaker 1:like same story, different outfit you know, yeah, and something happened.
Speaker 1:It escalated. I don't even know if it was something I said or did or whatever, but I was like you know what? Fuck you, I'm leaving. And this time I'm leaving, right, he's no, you're not leaving. And so he like bear hugs me and I'm like get off of me. And so that starts the struggle. And he wouldn't let go of me and he's not throwing me around or anything, he's just he's, he's restraining me just because I'm trying to leave. And so I grabbed the phone and I dialed nine one, unbeknownst to both of us. It connected. He thought he hung it up, or I had hung it up, but we hadn't, and so they could hear the struggle going on. So immediately police are dispatched and I didn't have marks on me. It wasn't really even what I would consider a serious altercation by comparison, altercation by comparison. So I was like what's the big deal? And the police were basically like this is 97 now, or I'm sorry, that was in 97 when the first occurrence happened.
Speaker 2:This was more like 2013,.
Speaker 1:I want to say yeah, and so it's a different landscape in domestic violence. This is post OJ. Oh, that's illegal.
Speaker 2:It was illegal for him to restrain, exactly, exactly, and so they were like, did he touch you?
Speaker 1:And then I was like, yeah, this is what happened and I'm trying to play it down because I don't want him to go to jail, because I don't want him to get fired, because I don't want to lose the income I don't want. The kids are old enough now. I don't want them to see it. I was like, oh, can we just make this go away? Of course no. And the worst part of it is that my children were upstairs in their bedrooms and the police went up to interview them. Now that's a low point, yeah, that's a low point. And they didn't see anything, but naturally they heard things and that's oh, it hurts just thinking about it.
Speaker 1:Left, the police called him back, he turned himself in, spent the night in jail, he got out the next day and I mean, I used to never pursue or cooperate with the prosecution and back in the day you could get away with that. But now it's the state versus the individual, not you versus them. So they'll subpoena you as a hostile witness and I think he was able to negotiate something. So I didn't. We didn't have to go to court and do the whole trial thing and all of that, but it was. It was a terrible time and it was something that stayed with me. And it's something that still stays with me, because I don't know what that did to my kids. You know, I always thought I protected them from everything, but obviously I didn't.
Speaker 1:And that makes me feel like a bad human being, Like I had failed them to some extent. But the only comfort I can find in any of that is just knowing I tried to do the best I could with what I had at the time.
Speaker 2:And that's all you can do. And we all fail our kids in some way, some at some point, at least in their eyes, even if whether or not we agree is one thing, but at least in their eyes we failed them in some ways. But that's the best point that you just made. You did the best with what you could, with the knowledge that you had. You know what you grew up with right, and you knew you were providing something. Better than that Doesn't mean that better than that didn't still have some trauma to it, because it did, but you were still doing the best that you could. So when did you finally break away from this marriage?
Speaker 1:I think I had said to myself around the time Grace was born that I was going to ride this out with him until my son graduated from high school, because I my son is a very sensitive, loving, caring child and I knew that a divorce and he adored his dad and I think he still does and so I did not want to impact him negatively. So I had made the decision I'm going to stay until my son graduates from high school, and he graduated in May of 2015, and I left July 4th of 2015.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, and what you just said there is important too. So we're out here, obviously talking about this publicly. Are you concerned at all that your son is going to be upset that you're talking about his dad? Because what we're talking about is real, it really happened and it's your story and it's your life to heal and you have to do whatever you have to do to heal, but, conversely, he also loves his father and he probably doesn't want to hear you talking about this stuff about his father. So how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1:I have two thoughts on that. The first thought is it is the truth, it's my truth and I have the documentation and the receipts to back it up, and I'm happy to share that at any point with him if there becomes a question of my honesty or my sincerity. The second part is he's 28. Like you're going to have to hear the truth, dude, like it's time, cause this whole idea of keeping everything shrouded in darkness and silence is so fucked up about it.
Speaker 1:The fact that we can't talk about it Like we should be talking about it. We should be adding to each other's story and saying, no, mom, actually this is how it happened. We should be processing this information, not burying it.
Speaker 2:Totally agree, but some people just yeah they just don't have that, and that's what I'm saying, like I would.
Speaker 2:I'm fearing for you that his issue is not whether or not you're telling the truth, but what, that you're talking about it with other people, and that is a problem.
Speaker 2:It is why we have a lot of the problems that we have today, because people aren't brave enough to talk about this stuff. Because even if, let's just say, you had no problem telling the world what happened, but you were too scared to do it because you're too afraid of what your kids would think, that's still a problem. That's a reason why people don't talk, and these are the things that we have to break and make it become the norm so people can talk about this stuff and people can understand it's okay to do it and people are held accountable for their behavior. It's people that, when nobody talks about it, now people are getting away with this terrible behavior and nothing ever happens and they just get to go on living life and being like everything's great, when they actually have terrible wrongdoings that they've never had to amend for or make up for or account for, and that's not good for us as a society as a whole.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree, and to this day, I have never heard the words I'm sorry or I'm sorry I hurt you from my ex-husband Never, in fact. A few years ago I even apologized to him and I owned my shit in our relationship because I was like I'm really sorry that I wasn't the kind of wife that you needed me to be and I'm sorry that my mental health went unchecked for so long. And he's thank you. I really appreciate that. You owed me that and I and the only thing he's ever said to me as far as an apology was I'm sorry if it makes you feel that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the worst kind of apology, because it's not a real apology.
Speaker 1:No, it's like, I'm sorry for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sorry you feel that way incorrectly. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1:Exactly, but no accountability. To this day I'm not sure I've ever heard him even apologize to the kids for anything. But I will say this my mother was very convincing and very awful when she spoke of my father. So I grew up hating him and hating part of me because I was half him. I tried not to do. I wasn't always perfect, but I tried not to do that to my children because I wanted to give them permission to love their dad. I didn't want to turn them against him. It wasn't a me versus him. This was us trying to do the best we could for our kids as co-parents.
Speaker 2:You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean Now what he was doing on his sideline. I have no idea and it's none of my business. All I know is that I would always say, if I had nothing nicer to say and the kids may be complaining or frustrated I would say look, your dad's doing the best he can do. Cut him some slack.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's what I would leave it with. I wouldn't go in. They know there were issues, but they don't know the details that I'm sharing here and chances are I'll be honest they probably won't even listen, because they don't. They're not as in tune and engaged with what I'm doing here. They don't really understand why. Maybe at some point down the road they will Sure. But I like to say what I'm doing here is much bigger than me and them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, my kids don't listen to my podcast. I didn't, actually, my youngest two listen to the first one and they said it bummed them out so much they were like Dad, I can't listen to that. It's too sad I can't because they don't know that part of me. They don't know that part of my life. Yeah, I've told them I grew up with struggles and I was poor and all that, but they didn't really know the details so it didn't sink in with them. And, yeah, they don't listen to my podcast and they'll never hear this.
Speaker 2:So I totally understand what you're saying there. But you know how sometimes word gets back to people. Someone will. They'll know your name and then they'll know your son and they'll say something to your son.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right, that's a real concern. But at the same time I remind my kids too don't judge people by their worst moments. Yeah, and those were some of his worst moments, and you can't be judged in your totality about it, because I don't want to be judged at my worst moments. I'm more than the mistakes I've made.
Speaker 2:Right, we all are Nobody's perfect, right we?
Speaker 1:all are Nobody's right. So to show people grace to some extent, I think, is important.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Why I named my daughter.
Speaker 2:So Sheldon and grace. I totally side topic here. I'm watching that big bang theory spinoff. I think it's just called shelvin, I think that's what it's called.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I think you're right I?
Speaker 2:it totally just hit me with that because that's what I'm watching right now with my wife, so I'm getting her total sidebar to this whole conversation. She's brazilian, she's from brazil. I'm going through all the series with her, getting her caught up on American culture. We've watched Friends Together. We've watched Seinfeld, big Bang Theory we just keep going through and she loved the Big Bang Theory.
Speaker 1:Sex and the City. You got to be comparing, mr Big Bang Theory.
Speaker 2:No, she watched that all by herself. She's all about Sex and the City. She loves it, she thinks it's great. She's all about sex in the city. She loves it, she thinks it's great. So you're about 20 years behind. At least you know it now. So, anyway, total sidebar to our conversation, but I think we're coming to the end of this conversation.
Speaker 2:I think we've said about everything we can say. Dom, domestic violence and domestic abuse is awful, and people need to have the strength to understand they are better than that, even when they feel like they're all alone, because we're really never all alone. I know that we think we are because there are times I have suicidal ideations in the past as well and I've felt alone and I know that we think we are, because there are times I have suicidal ideations in the past as well and I've felt alone and I know that we think we are. But when we actually reach out to people and it doesn't have to be family I know your family abandoned you People step up, people show compassion, people show kindness and they help people in their worst moments ie your friend that came and got you that you had to jump out the back window for. So we need to put that in people's mind and let them understand that when they get in the worst of worst moments, they're not alone.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. Because you can't just look at somebody and tell what they've been through and how they're going to relate to you. You just have no idea. And so many people are carrying this kind of stuff so deep. I've spoken about it a few times, but not quite so publicly like this. I think I've shared it maybe once or twice, but there's still a lot of shame and embarrassment and like emotional fatigue that comes from it, and I would just encourage people there to unpack it, because somebody was asking me the other day why are you, why do you feel this need to get out and air all your dirty laundry? And I'm like because I'm tired of it being seen as dirty laundry. It's my story.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we shouldn't be ashamed about this stuff. We should normalize the conversations about it, we should support one another and we should have a little more kindness for each other, because there's a reason why we do everything.
Speaker 2:And just even that comment is part of the problem. That's just making that comment, airing your dirty laundry. That phrase just needs to go away, period. People need to stop saying that to each other. This isn't your dirty laundry, Like you said. I think your response is perfect. It's amazing. It's your story and you're living your life story and in doing that, you have to learn how to heal and get better and do it right and be a better person.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And so I'm so glad to have met you. I'm glad that I can call you friend now and thank you for doing this Encore episode with me and we will be doing more together in the future. You will be my co-host on some episodes and that will be exciting and fun and I look forward to doing that with you. Was there anything you want to leave with everybody before we get out of here?
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, Final thought. I'm overwhelmed, but I will tell everyone this. In some ways this does feel a little selfish, because when I'm done here and I'm going to go downstairs and probably talk to my daughter and hang out for a bit, there is a lightness to my spirit after I talk about this. That's what I wish. More people who's carrying the stuff with them would realize. It's heavy and when you start unpacking it it literally lifts you up. It's. I don't know how else to explain it, other than it's a lightness. It's almost like I'm literally unpacking those compartmentalized boxes that are in the back of my head and just dumping it out.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And it the net result is just it's relief, it's serenity and it's peace, and that's ultimately the journey that I'm on to find those things.
Speaker 2:Well, very well said. Very well said. What a great way to finish this. I have been speaking about my journey as well, not only on my podcast, but as a guest, and so it allows me to keep dumping those boxes, as you say, and it is a relief. It does make me feel better, just the same way I felt just a few months ago when I first started recording my podcast and telling my story. I already feel so different, so much lighter, more free. So, yeah, what a great final thought you have there. So, yeah, thank you everyone for listening to the podcast today, and I, oh, I didn't ask you for permission to do this. If you don't like it, I'll cut it.
Speaker 1:But I wanted to brag.
Speaker 2:I wanted to brag. I wanted to say that you are the first person to subscribe to my podcast and I wanted to thank you publicly for that, because it means a lot to me and your kindness People. I know how kind you are and what you know. Whatever traumas you've had, whatever you've been through, I know how big your heart is and how kind you are and I wanted to share that with people as well. So thank you for that.
Speaker 1:That is very sweet, brandon. Absolutely, I'm happy to support you. I think what you're doing is great, I think it's needed and I feel very privileged to have some small part of it.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. So, on that note, I'm going to ask others to please follow in Lynette's footsteps and just go to my website, brandonhellcom, and just subscribe to my podcast. I actually have two ways you can do it now. You can just do a donation, a monthly donation, and there's various amount options. I also now have a new $10 subscription where I will do a podcast or two every month, exclusive only to the members. It won't be for the general public, it will be for members only. So if you think that's something you would be interested in, then go ahead and sign up for that version of the subscription.
Speaker 2:And also still trying to build my social media, so if you could go to Instagram and follow me BH, life is crazy, and Lynette is Lynettewest on Instagram. And finally, I have a YouTube page and if you just type in Brandon Held, you probably can find me, but to add to it, it's Brandon Held Life is Crazy. If you could follow me on YouTube as well, I'd greatly appreciate it. And so, once again, I thank you for taking your time to listen to myself and Lynette tell our stories and helping us normalize things that need to be normalized in this world. So we'll talk to you next time. Yeah, it's there like Right oh.
