Brandon Held - Life is Crazy

Episode 66: The Silent Struggle: A Woman's Journey Through Hormonal Change with Amita Sharma

• Brandon Held • Season 3 • Episode 66

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Amita Sharma shares her journey from architecture student to co-founder of Nourish Doc, a holistic wellness platform empowering women through hormonal transitions. Her personal struggle with perimenopause symptoms that threatened her tech career led to the creation of a comprehensive solution for women.

• Sent to boarding school at 13 while her parents moved to North Africa, creating early feelings of abandonment
• Pursued architecture against family pressure to become a doctor, studying at UC Berkeley
• Struggled with low-paying jobs despite prestigious education
• Changed careers multiple times, eventually finding success in software and product management
• Experienced debilitating perimenopause symptoms at 40 that threatened her career
• Used natural healing methods from her Indian heritage to resolve her health issues
• Created Nourish Doc to help women navigate hormonal transitions from PMS to post-menopause
• Discovered 50% of mid-age women experience anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts related to hormonal changes
• Developed a platform offering affordable solutions from self-care to expert guidance
• Emphasizes that self-care is not selfish but essential for overall wellbeing

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Developed by a team of Practitioners, men's health scientists, neuroscientists and peak performers. MNLY harnesses the power of blood analysis, machine learning, and AI to evaluate data from four essential components: Biological, Environmental, Nutritional, and Clinical analysis. By leveraging this advanced technology, we develop precise, evidence-based solutions that are tailored uniquely to each individual.

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Their supplements have been developed by a team of Practitioners, men's health scientists, neuroscientists and peak performers. MNLY harnesses the power of blood analysis, machine learning, and AI to evaluate data from four essential components: Biological, Environmental, Nutritional, and Clinical analysis. By leveraging this advanced technology, they develop precise, evidence-based solutions that are tailored uniquely to each individual.

https://www.getmnly.com/ 

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Speaker 1:

Welcome. Welcome back to Brandon Held. Life is Crazy, and today I have a great guest. Her name is Amita Sharma and she's the co-founder of Nourish Doc, a holistic wellness platform dedicated to empowering women through every stage of their hormonal transition. And we're going to, of course, do what we always do on Life is Crazy. We're going to go through some parts of Amita's life and her struggles, and you know where she's at on the other side today. So how are you doing today, amita?

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm feeling very blessed, as we were talking earlier, brandon, that I feel blessed. I have this amazing opportunity that I'm doing now and I feel blessed. The lives that I'm hopefully I'm going to touch people's lives and make a difference. So I'm feeling pretty good at this stage of my life.

Speaker 1:

That's great. I mean, our goals are definitely aligned there. That's the whole point of my podcast is to touch people's lives and make a difference. So what a perfect blend of us coming together If you would just tell people just a little couple minute overview about yourself, what you're doing and things like that.

Speaker 2:

So I'll share my present, what you're doing and things like that. So so I'll share my present, what I'm doing, and then you can go into the past the struggles that I have gone through if you like yes but, um, you know, that makes it human right.

Speaker 2:

People don't think that this was, this happened overnight. It never nothing happens overnight, as we all know that. But what I'm trying to do is bring the wellness part, the mind, body and soul wellness, and we're starting with women first. The reason is because we women go through more hormonal shifts than men and we are starting with the women as they go through the hormonal shifts, starting as early as PMS, when they're younger, go into the PCOS, then we skip over the fertility part and go into the perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause, and giving them tools and empowering them so that they can navigate this journey with confidence and also even at work. You know they don't have these issues of silent struggle that most of us, most of the women, go through a silent struggle, and not really for the fear of being judged.

Speaker 2:

So this is a wellness platform for women, starting with the self-care, moves on to the guided care with experts we have over 500 to 600 experts we're going to launch with and then it goes into the personalized and virtualized one-on-one. So it's a very comprehensive from a cost point of view, starts at like less than a cup of coffee, then also at the point of which stage they are, as I said earlier, and also what symptoms they are facing. So we meet them according to their needs, where they are, from price point, from the stage, as well as the symptoms, as well as the cultural sensitivity. So these are the things we're bringing to the table.

Speaker 1:

Great, yeah, that's a great explanation of where you're at today. Let's talk about how you got there, as we do on. Life is crazy. Not everyone's life is just a bowl of roses, right, we have ups and downs and we have to take the bad times with the good and, a lot of times, get our biggest and hardest lessons out of the bad times. If you want, just start with your, and you can be as brief as you'd like. What was your childhood like? Growing up?

Speaker 2:

so you know it was actually quite um tumultuous. The reason being it was that I well, I was actually went to a boarding school when I was 13 and it was unheard of, and you know that that generation from where I come in and I was, I grew up in india and at that time it wasn't very fashionable to go to um boarding schools, right, uh, up until that it was pretty pretty normal, it was pretty good. I grew up in a very small town um, nobody even has even heard of it today, but a very small dot of north part of India, actually in the foothills. A very beautiful town it was.

Speaker 2:

And then at age 13 I ended up going to boarding school, which was quite a shock for me and adjustments. You know the fear, because my parents left India and they went to North Africa. So I was in boarding school. So it was hard for me to adjust. Abandonment, you can see, right, as a child, as a teenage girl, you know you feel lost, you lack of direction, you can see. So I ended up heavily depending on my boarding school, sort of like friends and teachers, and grew very close to them, because you become a sort of like a sorority, what we call here right. It was similar kind of a sisterhood.

Speaker 2:

So, it was not like a, you know, kind of a normal family and suddenly there was a lot of disruptions, is what I'm saying. You know, being alone in a country like India, which for women, especially young girls, not safe to travel alone, you know, in buses and trains, and that's what I was doing at that time, so it was not like a smooth. I would say that I had a lot of ups and downs, you know, especially in the teenage years. Before that it was pretty smooth.

Speaker 1:

Sure, being a teenage girl is hard enough and then effectively trying to do it on your own because your parents aren't around and you're just trying to grab on to whoever you can grab on to to help guide you through those teenage years, that had to be pretty tough, I would imagine.

Speaker 2:

It was. It was like going to you know how you would send the kids to foster care here. It wasn't like I was going to foster care, but in during my time off I would end up, uh, in my relatives, uh places all of my relatives. I had to find them right oh this one.

Speaker 2:

yeah, this one's my dad's. This is my mom's. Okay, now this is his turn. That's honestly. It was like that and they were very nice, so I have to say that I have to give it to them. They were amazing, amazing. I have amazing extended family support. Without them, I don't think I would be sitting here in front of you.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that is good. So thankful for them. Did your parents have any pre-designed plans for you, like what they wanted you to do with your life as an adult, or did they leave you to your own thoughts on that?

Speaker 2:

So initially, my dad, my dad was very proactive, he was very progressive you know we are and he wanted the girls to do something with their lives. So was, so did my mom, and so there was a little bit of disruption, you know, as they left. You know, as I said earlier, so that part of it I always had, that my dad wanted me to do something with my life. So I kind of navigated the time when you have to choose a career by myself. At that time I had no clue. To be honest with you, everybody wanted to become a doctor.

Speaker 2:

you know yeah yeah, and I failed. Honestly, I didn't know better, I didn't have the right coaching and I didn't get into the medical school. Most of our family was medical doctors and really prestigious. To become a doctor, um, and I know it's always very creative. So I kind of uh, believe it or not with my cousin brother who had no clue. He barely went to college. With his help, we I ended up in an architecture school. That's how and I v I, with his help, like I said, I admitted myself in an architecture school. That's a a story.

Speaker 1:

No, yeah, that's what I was looking for, Because I know a lot of times in Indian culture becoming a doctor is the standard when you have education and opportunity to do that. So I was just curious if they had put that kind of pressure on you.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. If you are not a doctor, you're a loser. So I think at some point in my life at that time you know, nobody had heard of architecture and my uncle helped me give me the money for okay, there, it is your first semester fees. You know like right.

Speaker 2:

And my grandmother was an amazing guiding force. I mean, without her it was unbelievable the unconditional support she gave me. You got to do what you believe in. If you don't want to become a doctor, it's OK. There is life beyond being a doctor. So so there was a lot of outside satellite help that I got. That that gave me sort of like a confidence. But even so, in our family if you were not a doctor you were like a second class citizen. You know what I mean. Yeah, it's bad not a doctor.

Speaker 1:

You were like a second class citizen. You know what I mean. Yeah, it was bad. Yeah, you know. It's funny how different generations have different points of view and it changes for people over time. Right, when you're younger, it's all about what can I do for status and money. And then, as you get a little older, parents think, well, how can you take care of yourself and your future family? And then, when you get even older, like grandma, grandpa, you're just more, just be happy. Right, don't worry about that stuff, just be happy. So it's funny how we do that as people and that creates pressure and and all that on our children Okay, you go to architecture school. And all that on our children Okay, you go to architecture school. How did that go?

Speaker 2:

What happened from there. So it was great. You know people, my students, you know I made a lot of friends. It was in a small town. Again, that town in India was designed by a French architect, lee Carusier. So Lee Carusier, I don't know if you're familiar with it, he's done a lot of work in France, in Marseille. He was from Marseille and he was commissioned, believe it or not, by Government of India at that time, in 19, god knows when.

Speaker 2:

I think that that time was done, in 1960s, you know, after the independence. You know that the prime minister wanted to modernize the country. So they chose the city and it was a brand new city. They planned it and they chose a French architect to do it. So I grew up in that city, studied in that city if you can imagine, very modern city. So I was highly influenced by that whole modernism. Clean lines, you know it's a beautiful city, even today, if you go to India, nobody, you know clean lines. You know it's a beautiful city. Even today we go to India, nobody, you know. So I was very highly influenced by that whole. You know French architecture, so to speak.

Speaker 2:

But the end story was it was hard to make a living when I came here to United States as an architect, right, right. So I was again judged by oh, lack of, you know, lack of kind, of not choosing the right profession at the time. Hey, we told you you should have become a doctor. You've chosen architecture. Who's going to go hire an architect in India? How many times you build homes? You know you build a home once time and people get sick all the time and they die all the time. You know, that's the kind of logic from a business point of view it's coming right. You know, my grandfather was a business guy and he literally started from the street and he made a fortune according to those times, right.

Speaker 1:

He was like Jeff Bezos a small town selling books.

Speaker 2:

So he became very wealthy and he's telling me see, I sell books, everybody needs books. So he became very wealthy and he's telling me see, I sell books. Everybody needs books every single month. What about architects? You don't need an architect every month, you need a commodity business.

Speaker 1:

You know what I mean. Yeah, I completely understand that train of thought because previously I have an MBA and I worked in aerospace for a good chunk of my career and I got laid off twice while working in aerospace. So I thought you know to heck with this aerospace stuff. So I did move to the medical side of the house because you always need medical. So I thought you know to heck with this aerospace stuff, so I did move to the medical side of the house because, you always need medical.

Speaker 1:

So I understand that philosophy and that logic. So when you came to America, did you struggle to have a career as an architect?

Speaker 2:

I went to school at UC Berkeley. You know I was so obsessed I told you with this French architect.

Speaker 1:

I was determined to get at UC.

Speaker 2:

Berkeley. You know, I was so obsessed, I told you, with this French architecture, I was determined to get into UC Berkeley. And uh, and I got in somehow, I have no idea how, but I did and and and so I'm like, oh my god, this is like the. You know, I don't know if you read Ayn Rand, it's a very celebrated author, she. She wrote a book called Fountainhead. It's really elevating the profession of architect, being like the higher self and how, coming out with the ideas of creating the humanity and the buildings that control. You know, all of that kind of a very metaphysical sort of a thing.

Speaker 2:

So, but I graduated from UC Berkeley and, sure enough, the reality was like hey, 12 bucks an hour, we're going to give it to you and that's the reality and that's how much architects make.

Speaker 2:

And I could not get into really big firms. You know and in those days it used to be Skidmore, owings and Merrill, I think it still exists was very, very hard trying to start your own. You're getting maximum. I mean it was like fifteen dollars an hour, I think, if I remember correct. And it's hard, very, very hard, and you just could not break into one of these architectural companies because there's a competition was fierce and the kind of I mean there were like thousand applicants, applicants for one job, that kind of a thing at those times. Right. So here I am, you know a degree from a top school, but literally not unemployed, but you know, sort of like making nothing. If I could have just gone into a retail, you know store like a Macy's, and I could have gotten more money out of that without going into so so there was a lot of down very, very negative thoughts that came.

Speaker 2:

I felt, um, useless. Honestly, I did not know what to do. I wanted to do this, but now I can't make enough living. And what do I do now? It? There's a lot of years of young being young, being motivated to do something with your life but not getting the chance to do it right. That's where I was for, I think, quite a few years, and here I was in in Silicon Valley. I see other younger people, uh, my, you know friends, and here and there they're in this um, intel of the world. You know, uh, you know, like chip industry was going on at that time and they were making like 50, 60 000 at that time. That seemed like, oh my god, you're like million dollars. You know today's right and here.

Speaker 2:

I am barely scraping, you know, by. So it was a shock for me. Intellectually, I felt the sense of worth was down.

Speaker 1:

I should say that yeah, the drive to do something with yourself was still there, right. So you still had the opportunity. I can tell you this about me I hated school, hated it. Growing up I was not. I didn't think college was even a thing I would ever attend. That sounded so far-fetched and foreign to me.

Speaker 1:

And I joined the Air Force right out of high school. And that didn't work and I was just well, I guess I'm going to have to do the college thing. And so I did get the undergraduate degree in broadcasting and communications, because that's what I wanted to do broadcasting and communications, because that's what I wanted to do. But when that wasn't working out like you just discussed the opportunity, that degree was essentially worth it. I ended up going back to school to get the MBA because I was like, well, now I have this broadcasting communications degree that isn't going to do me any good. So now I have to go another level and get another level of education to do something with my life. The path that we take isn't always exactly what we thought it would be, but just the drive to do something with yourself and be successful is enough. What did you end up doing? How did you end up succeeding after the architecture thing wasn't working out.

Speaker 2:

I went back to school, like you did, and I did not know anything better. So I said, oh, I should do environmental engineering, close to architecture, still engineering and still doing something good for the earth. Right, I always wanted to do something creative, but after environmental engineering it was much better, but still I was. I had to go into the middle of desert in hawthorne in in nevada and and people were drilling uh, you know, with the rigs, the oil rigs that's not something I I was. They would fly us in the chartered planes. That was the cool part, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And then, once you go and you were in the desert and we were in a tent working in a tent and I was doing the database, something in the computers, I was good at that and the rest of the team would go in all day in sun, hot, scorching sun and oil. Can you drilling?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Oh my God, that was a hard job.

Speaker 1:

I'm like, oh my god, from frying pan unified to the frying pan here I have no idea what to do again with my life yeah, it's funny they pay well for those hard jobs. Sometimes the job itself is hard and sometimes the hard part is putting up with the people that you have to work with and that's what you get paid for. I think the world is not built well for creatives. It's a struggle to be creative in this world because there's only so much creativity to go around and be financially successful. The world is more built for logics and people do the logical things and that type of work. So I'm not creative at all, but I totally have sympathy for creatives and I see that and I know that because I have a brother that's 10 years younger. He's a creative. He's an amazing drummer, he can draw, he can play the guitar, he can do all kinds of things, but what he can't do is hold down a quote unquote regular job right, he just can't do it. It's not in him and I feel sorry for him.

Speaker 2:

It's hard being trying to be creative, trying to do something different, because you have to go through so many hoops. It's not, life is not very predictable. I should say that you know it's not. Life is not very, uh, predictable. I should say that you know it's not like, oh I, I just take up a job and I stand, you know, sit there, and I could have spent 20-30 years, but that was not the case in my life. I had to go so many different I mean hoops to get to where I am sitting in front of you. But it's okay, you know. I mean, at time it was very unsettling for me to keep changing, keep changing, and I'm like you know what the time is going to run out. What am I going to?

Speaker 2:

do Like you know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

I just survived. The longest I've held any job is four years, and both of those were. I did four years in the Air Force, four years in the Army, and both of those were. I did four years in the Air Force, four years in the Army. Outside of that I haven't had a civilian job longer than four years. But I'm here and I'm doing well in life. You know, you could still survive without doing the same thing repeatedly over and over again In an effort of time. Let's talk about some of your rough times personally that you've had to go through, and you've had to get through to be where you are today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So you know, even after that, I ended up changing my profession. I ended up actually getting into software, which was better because that paid really well, and then recently that the how I started. Maybe I can share this, you know, otherwise we'll sit here all for the next two hours sitting through my journey.

Speaker 2:

It's a long journey for everything, so I'll briefly talk about how I got about doing what I'm doing. Maybe that would resonate more. So here I was in high tech. I finally decided to go in high tech and and I actually loved doing the software part. That is something I fell in love with. Doing the product management part and doing these websites and and creating a difference and creating these experiences online that impact people. You know consumers, so to speak. So my experience was in consumer experiences and at the same time, I was 40.

Speaker 2:

By doing all this shebang that I'm telling you right, doing this, doing that, doing this, I'm 40 years old because I'm still figuring out what to do. By the time I'm there, I figured out this is what I'm supposed to do. So then, at the same time, I started experiencing perimenopause. I was so happy. Finally I found something I absolutely love what to do I can really do well. I still have a, you know, decent 15, 20 years of my career to do well in my life and feel good. But guess what happened I? My hormones started shifting. I'm going into perimenopause. I'm a 40 year old woman at that time and I cannot concentrate on my work because of the hormonal ups and downs me obviously is a man.

Speaker 1:

I don't identify with that, but I definitely would love to hear your journey through that.

Speaker 2:

So here I am, I'm thinking, oh my God, how blessed I am. Before I couldn't figure out what to do with my life. You know, when I was younger, finally I figured it out, and now God is giving me this whole challenge to. You know my health and the challenge, and this is more serious now. So the issue was I couldn't sleep at night, and in the morning I would be all groggy, my brain fog. I couldn't sleep at night, and in the morning I would be all groggy, my brain fog. And then I'm starting having hot flashes. You know, when I'm working during business hours, I did not know how to control it and and my productivity went down, my focus went down, and and I go to medical fraternity for help I'm offered a anxiety or depression pill which I didn't want to take, or I didn't want to be on that pill forever, and I was a mess. I could not work properly. So that's what ended up happening. It was like, oh my God, what am I supposed to do now? And it was.

Speaker 2:

It was a pretty rough time because I needed the money. Finally, I'm in a profession that pays really well and I'm good at it, but now my body is kind of doing something strange and not supporting me. So, and plus, I have two kids right at the time, you know, a 40 year old woman has two kids. So what am I supposed to do? So then I said, well, you know I can't quit. So I started researching into fixing myself. How do I fix myself? I kept thinking. So, as I said earlier, I grew up in India, which is a land of natural healing and you know grandmother and all that stuff. I started researching into acupuncture, ayurveda, food as medicine, exercise as medicine, researching on myself, on. Oh, let me try this, let me do this, let me do this Magically. After years of suffering, silent suffering at work, I fixed myself. Right, that was a magic.

Speaker 1:

Yes, while I can't identify with the exact same situation, I can identify with the health issues. Right, and obviously, when your physical health is failing, it affects everything else in your life, and I've gone through physical health problems myself as well throughout my life journey. As recently as six months ago, for a year and a half I had these blinding. I was in the best shape of my life when I turned 50 and I was the strongest I had ever been. I was, I looked great, and then I got these blinding migraines from nowhere. I had no idea.

Speaker 1:

I never had headaches in my life, never really dealt with headaches, and then so I was doing all this stuff for the next year and a half going to doctors, neurosurgeons, getting MRIs, everything, and nobody can figure out what is wrong with me or why it's happening. Eventually I find a medication called nortriptyline that has helped curve my headaches, but I don't want to be stuck on a pharmaceutical drug my whole life and it's hard to do something else because I don't know what's causing it right. So I totally get the health part. Affects you like that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's. And you know I was so determined to fix myself. I said, you know what? Because as a child, you know, as a younger adult and teenager, I had had jaundice. You know, at that time I fixed myself with the help of my grandmother and other family members, using food as medicine, you know, using the right eating, the right type of foods. And when I was in my 30s I still had issues with chronic fatigue. Again, I fixed myself at that time doing all kinds of things. So now I said you know what? So this is when, when my journey started into really focusing on how I can make an impact on other women's lives. And that's when this whole thing started.

Speaker 2:

Because me, it engulfed me, right, my entire life, my career was now going into the doldrums. My personal life was like I did not know my, I would forget things. You know, my, my. I put in so much weight. I did not know how. I was never fat, I was always very silly, and suddenly I put on, you know, so much weight. I hate my, I hated myself, not because you know the body image, but you get it right you know, if you're not used to a big, bigger body, you, you don't want change.

Speaker 2:

Okay, let's put it this way it's not that there's anything wrong with being fat or anything, it's just that that's not who I was.

Speaker 1:

Well, in personal preference. So my personal preferences. I want to be fit and I want to be strong, and if I'm not, that it affects me, it bothers me. I don't want to be fat. I'm not fat shaming people, I just personally don't want to be fat. So I think that's okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, same here. I, I, I have to be fit, be fit, I have to look good. All of these things that ingrained in my, in my dna right from as a child, you know so I. So all these things uh happened. Opposite things started happening. So I had to fix myself again and that's when I affixed myself.

Speaker 2:

that was the interesting part. And then it, it kept working. And then, around COVID timeframe two, three years back I decided I said you know what, let me just try doing something on my own and maybe let me just dabble into a little bit of holistic wellness and see where it takes me, because I had used that to fix myself multiple times right and during the process I ended up talking to about 5000 experts, women, so to speak. This whole topic of what I went through silently, what I explained earlier, the perimenopause journey, all of these women that kept coming up because most of them were mid 40s, 50s you know that age group and that topic kept coming up and I would share it. And I said you know what? I never talked about it.

Speaker 2:

Other women will also say the same thing. So, my God, you know people. We don't talk about it in society. This is a natural phase of a woman's life and we should be able to get help. You know all of these things the more I dug into it the more I realized it is underserved as a community, as a society, all over the world.

Speaker 2:

We don't talk about this, this phase of a woman's life, we don't support the woman, and lack of support can can aggravate the chronic condition situation. I looked at the data. It's like 80% of the women over 55 have one chronic condition in this country, men too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome in my 40s, and so I just I want to say this for people that may not understand the primary platform of my show is to prevent suicide and for mental health, and the reason that I wanted to have you on is because, even though it's not specifically to prevent suicide, it definitely is for mental health, and assisting women going through this time in their life and self-help and helping others is really all that matters at the end of the day for my show. That's what I want. You know that's what I'm trying to accomplish here, so I just want to make that matters at the end of the day For my show. That's what I want. You know that's what I'm trying to accomplish here, so I just want to make that clear to the listening audience. That may not understand why we're discussing this today. I know that we don't have all day to talk about this, so I'm going to ask you in closing here what are your final thoughts and what's the message you want to get across the most to the listeners?

Speaker 2:

So I do want to just to go in sync with your theme of your podcast about the suicidal thoughts and the mental health. 50% of the women who are mid-age are going through anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts, by the way. So this ties in with your dad, I think we and they don't seem to get help because they don't know what's happening, why they're getting these suicidal thoughts, why they're feeling anxiety, why their mental health is issues. They're having mental health issues because of the correlation of what I explained earlier the hormonal fluctuations that's happening during this phase of their journey, of what I explained earlier the hormonal fluctuations that's happening during this phase of the journey of perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause. It's very important for women to understand that.

Speaker 2:

So, in closing, what I want to say is self-care is not selfish. You know, it's important for women and men to listen to their inner voice. It's important for women and men to listen to their inner voice. If you are feeling suicidal, there is something is going on in your body itself, right, which you need to recognize. What is it? Whether it's going in your body, it's going on your relationships, it's going with something else.

Speaker 1:

You need to recognize that and seek help, right? Yes, yeah, great, great point. And also women while women go to doctors and get help more than men, they also struggle with self care. Like you said, that it feels selfish to them because they're more giving, more worried about their children, their husband, everything else, and so that that's a great point. You bring up that self care is not selfish. So thank you for that, and I want to thank you for being on my show today, Amita. I feel we could keep going for another hour. We won't. We won't do that today. And for my listeners, please go to my website, brandon heldcom, and subscribe to the podcast and support the show. That would be greatly appreciated. And, as always, we thank you for giving us your most precious resource, which is your time. Never take that for granted. So thank you, and thank you for listening to Brandon held. Life is Crazy and I'll talk to you next time.

People on this episode

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Brandon Held

Host
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Amita Sharma

Guest