Episode 72: Two Men Confront Loss, Rethink Success, And Choose Self-Love with Jonathon Aslay

Two men trace a path from divorce, job loss, and grief to purpose, self-love, and real partnership. We share tools that worked, mistakes that hurt, and mindsets that lifted us out of the dark.

• immigrant childhood shaping identity and shame
• chasing money, status, and performative success
• marriage without emotional skills eroding over time
• divorce, layoffs, debt and the hit to self-worth
• suicidal ideation, survival, and asking for help
• online dating as connection and learning
• building a coaching practice to guide midlife dating
• values, lifestyle fit, and emotional maturity as filters
• grieving a son and choosing self-love in action
• gratitude, mantras, and daily steps to move forward
• finding best-friend love and aligned partnership
• practical rules for safer, smarter online dating

Get Jonathan’s book “What the Heck Is Self-Love Anyway” on Amazon. Just cut and paste “Jonathan Aslay” into Google to find YouTube, website, and to schedule a discovery call. Go to his website https://www.jonathonaslay.com/

 For Brandon: go to brandonheld.com and click on subscribe to podcast and support the show. 

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Chapters

• 0:26 Meet Jonathan Aslay And The Premise
• 3:36 Immigrant Roots And Childhood Shame
• 8:56 Rejecting Heritage And Chasing Success
• 12:45 Marriage, Programming, And Emotional Blindness
• 18:19 Divorce, Job Loss, And Identity Collapse
• 22:02 Rock Bottom, Suicidality, And Survival
• 23:59 Online Dating As Pseudo-Therapy
• 28:27 Coaching Women To Understand Midlife Men
• 33:07 Loss Of A Son And Choosing Self-Love
• 37:19 Vetting Partners: Values, Maturity, Alignment
• 42:04 Finding Best-Friend Love Later In Life

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:26

Welcome back to Brandon Held Life is Crazy. And as we do here on Life is Crazy, we like to have great guests that you can identify with and understand what they've gone through and what they've had to deal with, and how that journey has helped them get to where they are today. And today I have a great guest with uh a story that uh very much I resonate with, and uh I look forward to hearing the entire story and telling you all the entire story. And his name is Jonathan Asle. How are you doing today, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_03: 1:09

I'm really good, thank you, Brandon. How about yourself?

SPEAKER_00: 1:12

I'm doing well. Um, so you know, here on Life is Crazy, we just kind of start from the beginning, and um, but before we do that, I'm gonna have you just tell everyone a little bit about yourself, the highlights.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29

Yeah, so um I'll be candid with everyone listening. I'm in my 60s, uh, so I'm a boomer, tail-end boomer. Uh, my son jokes with me. Uh, you know, I have a I have a YouTube channel with over 200,000 subscribers, and he gives me crap. He goes, How did a boomer accomplish that? Um, I'm a professionally, I'm a dating and relationship coach, farthest thing from where I was when I went to college. Uh, I got into the insurance business, and that morphed uh partly with the story I'll share with everybody in a little bit. Uh, I have two children. Um uh my oldest 29. My youngest lives in heaven. He's been there for the last seven years. Uh, he was 19 when he transitioned. And I live in Southern California, and I'm in an amazing relationship with a wonderful woman.

SPEAKER_00: 2:22

Okay, awesome. That's a that's a great start. Um, little peek into who you are and what's going on. Um I am 50, I just turned 52 August 1st, so not too August 1st. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:37

That's my birthday.

SPEAKER_00: 2:38

No way, get out. All right.

SPEAKER_02: 2:39

That's my birthday too.

SPEAKER_00: 2:41

That's awesome. You don't run into I think it's the coolest birthday. Yeah, it is. I totally agree, and I love being a Leo on top of that. So um, well, there you go. We just learned that about each other. That's cool. All right, cool. So um, I know, you know, I know for fellas like you and I, going back to our our childhood was a while ago, uh, but it's it's where I like to start because obviously it it creates the foundation for who you became in life, and so if you could just tell everyone what was your childhood like? Where did you grow up? How did it help you become a young adult?

SPEAKER_03: 3:23

Yeah, so um, well, I I literally live a mile from the house I grew up in, and I think my father purchased that 55 years ago, give or take. Um, and and both my parents were immigrants from Istanbul, Turkey. So I grew up Turkish, or I grew up with parents who are Turkish, and I didn't say I grew up Turkish because it was really awkward for me as a child because most of my friends were second generation Americans and I was first generation. And and back in the 60s, you know, it was still pretty close to World War II. There was a lot of uh energy during the Korean War and that sort of thing. And why I bring this up is because it it affected me as a child growing up with immigrant parents. I was um I was ridiculed a little bit for being Turkish, and a lot of times I'd hear that gobble gobble, you know, because turkey is like the food you eat or or is the food most people eat during Thanksgiving. Um and but at the same time, you know, the 60s was a unique period of time. You know, I was um, and um actually to some degree I look back and I'm like, I miss the 60s compared to today. I missed the 60s and 70s before smartphones could capture everything you've ever done. Uh uh, you know, I would have gone to a cold play concert back then with a lot more ease, and I'm being tongue-in-cheek choking here. Um, anyway, um, but I I I want to bring this up because I always felt awkward growing up. Now, every kid to some degree feels awkward, but in my case, I felt awkward because you know my parents were judged. So I remember as a young boy exciting a lot emotionally speaking. And and I certainly believe that the experiences I had growing up affected me as an adult in a variety of different ways. And because I've done extensive therapy over my childhood, over my relationship with my parents, I recognize now how much of our childhood affects who we are as adults. And so anyone who hasn't done therapy, particularly family of origin therapy, ancestral therapy, that sort of thing, I invite everyone to do that because you'll find that a lot of your negative beliefs, your scripts, your patterns in life are directly affected by those scripts you heard from your parents. And that may not necessarily be the script or story you want to live by anymore. So um does that kind of give you a, I mean, does that kind of give you a flavor of what you were looking for in that question?

SPEAKER_00: 6:09

Yeah, I mean, that's a good start. I think there's more we can tap into there. But I mean, I I couldn't agree with you more about what you're saying about uh therapy and your childhood. And you know, that's why I go back that far because you I grew up in um became the person that I am, and it wasn't until therapy that I realized a lot of the ways that I behaved and a lot of the things that I thought went all the way back to what I dealt with in my childhood, and I didn't even know that as an adult, that that's what was forming my thoughts and opinions and the way I looked at the world, so yeah, absolutely. I I think it that's why it's important to start there.

SPEAKER_02: 6:55

Um absolutely. Where did you grow up? Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_00: 6:59

I grew up in Ohio, a small town, um, an all-white town. So I didn't experience race or diversity or anything like that until I turned 17 and joined the military. So okay. Um, yeah, in in some ways, I think it was good because I didn't have any like thoughts. Fractional tribe going on.

SPEAKER_03: 7:25

You didn't have that fraction. Whereas the kid across the street from Japanese from me, yeah, there was, I mean, not that Los Angeles, I mean, certainly Los Angeles is a bit of a more melting pot more than say somewhere in the Midwest, like where you grew up. But yeah, there was a bit more um I I don't want to use the word diversity, but I'm gonna use it in this context. There was a variety of different cultures and such, so um, it definitely was a different environment for me than versus what maybe you yeah, and let's just say you didn't know many, I don't know, let's just say Asian people, right?

SPEAKER_00: 8:01

But the Asian people you knew were mean to you and picked on you. Like maybe you felt a certain type of way about the Asian community. I didn't have any of that. So when I joined the military and I got to meet all the different cultures and ethnicities, I came in with a clean slate and an open mind. And um I think that attributes largely to you know who I am today and and why I judge people based on the person and the individual, not their race or any like that. Um, all right. So uh you you went through that as a as a um child with your parents being immigrants. Um, how did that mold you into becoming a teenager and a young adult?

SPEAKER_03: 8:49

You know, it's interesting as I'm reflecting upon, you know, just even even going back that far. I I remember I rejected um a big part of my heritage, partly because when I was 12 years old, um I had gone to the Turkish Council's General's home for a party where myself, my brother, my parents socialized with other Turkish families. And then that next week, the Turkish council general was killed in an assassination. And I'm 12 years old, reading or hearing about this on the news, and I immediately wanted to deflect my heritage. Like I didn't want anyone to know, you know, what my heritage was because I had fear of being killed for it, you know. So I remember on some level, I I really gravitated to being, I'm gonna use the word more white, but that wasn't it, but to be more American, excuse me. Um, it just happened to be more white people back then, but to be more American and to Americanize myself and and kind of reject my heritage. And while my parents weren't practicing Muslims, um, you know, there was still some element of that uh in the household, which I rejected. But it also I I start I the movie, I remember the movie Wall Street came out in my mid when I was in my early 20s. And you know, breed is good, you know, there's Gordon Gecko, Michael Douglas, you know, going after, you know, the private jets and all the fancy homes and things like that. So I kind of got on to the fast track of wanting to make lots of money. And and that's where I kind of led my life is how could I make lots of money? Um, went on to college, um, graduated from a pretty prestigious university, Loyaler Marymount in in Southern California, got myself a uh career in the insurance industry as a broker, started to make, you know, doing commission sales, that sort of thing, made a little bit more money than most of my friends because it was commission based. And and I was the guy, you know, if you ever saw the movie American Psycho, I dressed like Christian Bale or Patrick Bateman, the suit and tie, you know, go to nightclubs dressed up like that. I was GQ magazine was on my coffee table. I mean, I had that kind of American 19 mid-80s, you know, um, you know, dress in a double bested suit, you know, and I drove a Porsche, you know, kind of fast track kind of life.

SPEAKER_00: 11:40

Yeah, I think more of like uh Ryan Gosling and I think it was Love Actually, I think that's what it was called. Yeah, that's when you say that, that's who I think of. Um yeah, so I I don't I don't feel like the way you felt like alien alien alienating your heritage because you want it to fit in, right? What is that uncommon of a story? I I've I've heard that quite a few times over the years, and uh also chasing money. I a lot of people do that, you know, until it it puts them in some kind of like they focus on it so much that it kind of flips their life upside down, and then they realize money is not the answer that they thought it was.

SPEAKER_02: 12:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:26

Um so all right, so you're doing that, you're you're doing pretty well in your and you're uh successful in your insurance practice. Uh, what happens from there? How's life going?

SPEAKER_03: 12:39

So so now I'm in my late 20s, you know, and I had the script growing up like a lot of people did. Um, go to college, get a job, meet a girl, get married, buy a house, start a family. Like that was my programming.

unknown: 12:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 12:56

And you know, back then we didn't have swipe dating and everything. You had to go out organically. And boy, was I a nightclub person. You know, I mean, I go out with my buddies Friday and Saturday night, pick up chicks, was kind of what you did on Friday, Saturday night. And then um, in the tale, um, I think it was 28 years old, give or take. Yeah, about 28 years old. Uh, interestingly enough, there was this uh video dating service. Uh, it wasn't Great Expectations, which is a big company, very similar. And I and I got a flyer to go to them and pay$100 and sign up to their membership. And I met someone through this video dating service who I actually happened to know personally anyway. We had mutual friends. So I had to, I knew this person. I even asked her out once and got rejected. Now I see her on a video dating service. Asked her out and we went on a date. That was uh, I believe in January of oh my god, 1990. And you know, a year and a half later, we got married. Um okay, and um got married in 1992.

SPEAKER_00: 15:16

All right, that's uh I was just 18 in 1992. So um, but yeah, that's that's you're definitely on the path to the quote unquote American dream, right? Um and and uh obviously, as you alluded to in the beginning, you've gone through some things in life, some some ups and downs, and and outside of being picked on as a kid because your parents were immigrants, it sounds like a lot of ups to this point. Um, so you get married, what happens from there?

SPEAKER_03: 15:54

You know, as I reflect back now, when I got married, I was an unconscious human being. Again, I was following the programming, go to college, get a job, meet someone, get married, buy a house, start a family, and I was following that, but I didn't know who I was as a person. And and and you know, to the to some degree, that script, men are the provider, protectors, and your job is to make the money and you know, provide the home. And since I was kind of driven by greed to some degree, I wasn't that good of a husband. I mean, I was a performative husband, I did the things, but I didn't know who I was as a person. I didn't know how to communicate my thoughts and feelings. And little by little my relationship began deteriorating. And I'll I'll take you know, full blame of uh a big chunk of that. And and interestingly enough, uh, you know, you know, I did all the the family stuff along the way, you know, the soccer games with the kids and those types of things, family outings, picnics, that sort of stuff. But I wasn't fulfilled. I was just following the script because I didn't really know who I was. And and I started to do some really reckless things in my life. Um and about 10 years after I got married, is that about right? Or 13 years after I got married, I did some reckless things professionally. I changed jobs um because I I got really I got in my head, I got in my ego. I I felt like I deserved more. I was very um um angry and egoic at that point in time. And I changed professions. And when I did, I was taking a big gamble and I got I got an opportunity to run a sales force, getting paid a quarter million dollars a year. And this was back in early 2000. So, you know, I'd say it's the equivalent of three or four hundred thousand today. Yeah, and and in that time it was a risky position for me to take because I had no foundation with this new company. I was the newbie, and because of that, um I I went in, I I remembered going in to tell my boss I'm going through a divorce. And a month later he laid me off. No, and I yeah, and I think it was because he was afraid he and I remember him telling me about someone else who went through a divorce and how messy it was for all the employees and for him and his family, like it really affected the company. I think in his mind, he goes, you know what? I'm paying this guy a lot of money to build this sales organization. If he goes through a nasty divorce, it's gonna cost our company a lot of money. And he laid me off in that. So not only was I going through a divorce, I got laid off in my profession, and then the market crashed a few years later, and I got wiped out financially, and my identity was tumult, yeah. I mean pummeled.

SPEAKER_00: 19:12

Yeah, so this is what I was alluding to earlier. So um I have been divorced three times. Um the third time was my earth-shattering divorce. Uh I was also married for well, I was with her for 12 years, married for 10. We had two sons together. And when when we got divorced, it was a bitter, ugly, nasty divorce because I wanted, you know, to split the kids. I didn't want to pay her alimony, those types of things. She wanted full custody, she wanted alimony, so it, you know, some some nasty stuff happened um on her side to try to get what she wanted. And um, not only did I go through that, uh, I also got laid off at the oh, yeah. Yep, exact same time. And so um now I'm going through this divorce, I lose my home. I had to sell my home, and so now uh I'm unemployed as well, and I'm homeless. Um, and uh on top of that, the judge knowing that I was laid off while going through this divorce, decided that I would maintain all the debt that was acquired during the marriage and also ordered me to pay alimony and child support, even though uh I did you know get 50-50 custody. He still said I had to pay her money. So at that point in time, I had lost everything and was about fifty thousand dollars in the hole. Um, for when I just even started, even when I got a new job and would start to get back on my feet again. I was already fifty thousand dollars in the hole and being charged uh for my alimony and child support 10% interest a month for every month. I wasn't caught up completely.

SPEAKER_03: 21:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 21:11

So what that led me to attempting suicide. Um, and I drank our I took a full bottle of ambient, and obviously I didn't die. Someone called the ambulance to save my life, uh, which then in turn is where I turned around my life. But yeah, when you say you were going through that, I went through something very, very similar.

SPEAKER_03: 21:35

Yeah, you know, I remember, and and thank you for sharing that. And and why that's such an important share is there's not a lot of attention given to what men experience um going through a traumatic event. And as I was sharing earlier, when my identity was pummeled, I went to bed wishing I didn't wake up for almost five years. Now, not to the point that I committed, you know, wanted to commit suicide, but I was doing drugs and alcohol and online dating was my other drug of choice. I was uh online dating fiend during that time. And let me tell you why I said it was my drug of choice, because I began communicating with women, sharing, you know, talking to them about dating, about our lives, about our experiences and the pain. And I didn't realize it, but on some level, all of this communication was pseudotherapy for me. What I mean is I had someone who would listen to me. And I will say to any of you know, women have this beautiful capacity, you know, not are all vicious, you know, some of them have a beautiful capacity to be nurturing and loving. And I experienced a lot of that. And so during those next five years, uh my my online dating was a form of therapy. Um, because like I said, I went to bed wishing I didn't wake up. But it interestingly enough, Brandon, at the same time, my online dating addiction turned into my online, my profession of wanting to help women understand men that are going through this phase of their life. And so I started peripherally helping women improve their online dating profiles. And then I was helping them understand men in the dating realm, particularly men in midlife. And I always say midlife is after baby making years and before retirement. So that age demographic I focused on were women who were dating divorced men because that's the demographic I felt I knew best. And so little by little, once I had a purpose in life, once I began this vocation, and this I became a dating and relationshiping coach in 2010. At the same time, I began doing therapy. I began doing personal development work, I started to do spiritual work, self-help and therapy. My life began turning around, even though I'd reached this point of absolute bottom. Once I had a sense of purpose, it helped me start to climb my way out of the pit of despair.

SPEAKER_00: 24:26

Yeah, I think sense of purpose is important at all times. Uh, you know, just because you reach a certain level or certain status, you still need things to strive for. You still need a purpose because without that, you do just feel numb and lost and like you're just going through the motions, like you said before. Um, because I too was there when I was married. I, you know, I was the breadwinner. My wife was a stay-at-home wife, and um, you know, she took care of the kids and all that, and I and I would go to you know, kids events and and stuff on my time off and my days off. And um yeah, well, I wasn't happy. I wasn't happy. I was going through the motions of the life I thought I was supposed to live. Um, I'm very happy now. I am married for a fourth time. Uh, I still I still do have some old-fashioned values as in like the husband is the protector and the provider and all that. But that doesn't mean I hold my wife down. You know, my wife is uh starting, she has a master's degree in law and she's starting her jurisdoctorate in literally less than a week. So congratulations. Thanks. So I mean that's for her. That's not for me. That's this is me supporting her to you know to be what she wants to be and do what she wants to do in life. Um it's not necessary for me, right? If she just wanted whatever she wanted to do, if she wanted to stay home, if she wanted to work in a convenient, you know, a store, whatever she wanted to do, I would support her. She wants to be a lawyer, so that's what I'm supporting. So um I do have some old-fashioned values when it comes to stuff like that, uh, but we we align on that stuff, believe it or not. Um, even though she's obviously very advanced and forward-thinking and wanting to be a lawyer and have a career, uh, we still align on a lot of our values and thoughts. And I have the the best relationship I've ever had in my life by far, the way we communicate, just uh you know, everything. I couldn't be happier. So where did you meet her? Uh online. Online. Uh she's actually which dating site?

SPEAKER_03: 26:56

Let's give it a plug.

SPEAKER_00: 26:58

Well, it was actually International Cupid because I she was from Brazil. So okay. I met her. I met her on there, you know, and you gotta be careful on those sites because there's a lot of scammers trying to scam yeah, I would say so. Scam some people who don't know any better or get a little fooled, I'll say, if you will. But one of my one of my first rules was if you couldn't call me and I couldn't see your face on video, then I'm not gonna waste my time.

SPEAKER_03: 27:27

Bravo to you. You know, I I it's you know, that's the first rule. If you can't talk or or video chat in the first uh two or three tech exchanges, then it's time to move on.

SPEAKER_00: 27:38

Absolutely, yep. And people would come with all kinds of excuses, and I just assumed every time it was a scammer, they may not have been, but that was my assumption. Um, so and it wasn't easy, don't get me wrong. I did this for a while and talked to many different women across the world and many different countries before you know I connected with my now wife and uh realized we had a lot in common.

SPEAKER_02: 28:07

So cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:09

And how about you? I know that you say you're in a great relationship today. How'd that come about?

SPEAKER_03: 28:15

Yeah, so to kind of take the trajectory of the story a little bit more, do you mind if I give one piece before that?

SPEAKER_00: 28:22

No, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 28:24

So, so after you know, going through my divorce and and finding my vocation uh as a dating relationship in 2010, um, I did meet a woman who ended up being um a real significant person in my life. We're no longer together, but it was a significant relationship that's lasted for six years. Uh, she was she's a marriage and family therapist. And so what was interesting as I'm building my coaching practice, I had this woman who was a doctor that I could get advice from all day long, but at the same time, she was reparenting me emotionally because I was such a train wreck. Um, but I happened to be an adorable train wreck. So it's, you know, she was willing to invest in me. And while we both had a conscious uncoupling, that relationship was a pivotal point in my life to build kind of a foundation for for rebuilding my sovereignty. And so fast forward to the next year, I felt like I built some good emotional scaffolding for myself because of all the work I'd done, all the coaching I'd done to this point. And by the time my son passed away in 2018, you know, most people with children would say that that's probably the most devastating thing that would happen to them, and that they think that they probably wouldn't recover from it. And losing my son Connor motivated me to write my second book about self-love. And literally, I began writing it two months to the day after he passed and published it nine months after the day passed. Uh, I chose to grieve with love. Um, in other words, honoring his life would mean to honor my life to the fullest. And I do my best to live that way. And you know, I've been blessed. It's one was an Amazon bestseller. I mean, I I can it makes my car payment every month still, you know, the book sales. So uh, you know, I can't complain about that, you know, six years later. And um and doing all the work prepared me, and and I did a lot of dating too. You know, I mean, I'm still an advocate for online dating, despite what you talked about. Certainly a lot of scammers, there's a lot of wounded people, broken people. There are users out there, people who will waste your time. And then there are what I call grower builders. And and my coaching practice is predominantly I work with women. Women, but I also work with men. But I mostly work with women to help them understand men. But how to I I call it re-qualifying your prospect. See, we date, most of us date very performatively. It's about attraction, entertainment, romance, and physical connection. But that doesn't mean you're aligned in your values, doesn't mean your lifestyles are blendable, doesn't mean that this person is even emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship. So I created a coaching program over the last 15 years to help people decipher, you know, who's the right person for you. And by getting radically honest in the very early stages of the dating process to dig deep. Oh, yeah. And thankfully, you know, in my own life, I'm in a very special relationship with someone who's, I mean, you know, the truth of the matter is we are just two best friends that get to, can I use the F word?

SPEAKER_00: 32:11

Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_03: 32:12

Two best friends who get to fuck and have great sex together. We laugh, we play. Thankfully, we're beyond that raising children phase. So it's just the two of us. And and you know, this is someone who most likely will be in my life for the rest of my life. And and I wouldn't have got here if it wasn't for all of those experiences. Yeah. When I connect the dots and I'm grateful, despite feeling like I went to bed wishing I didn't wake up, despite losing my son, despite um having a significant relationship end. Um, and and I and I felt heartbreak after one of my other big relationships ended. Um it everything prepared me for where I'm at today. And I I'm, you know, I don't, I mean, I live a very blessed life. I'm very grateful. I mean, um, you know, I'm not a you know, I'm not a multi-multi-millionaire, but I live comfortably and and I have a good person in my life, I have good friends, and I I attribute it to the personal development, self-help, and spiritual work along with therapy to be where I'm at today. And and I share this with everybody. And why I wanted to come on your podcast is anyone who's listening to this who feels like their life's in the gutter, we get it. Brandon and I get this. We've been there. That's right, and we know what it's like. And and you know, I'll I'll share with at the end my what the what was the driving force to get me through this. But there are just there's there can be as many bright days ahead of you versus the dark days. And if you feel like you're in the dark days, you know what? Just keep putting one foot in front of the other because that can turn around, just like it can turn dark, you can walk right into the light as well. If you have faith, hope, trust in yourself, a heck of a lot of self-love. That's the name of my book, What the Heck is Self-Love Anyway? And that's what I encourage everybody to start leaning into for themselves.

SPEAKER_00: 34:15

Yeah, I I couldn't agree with everything you said more. And and while I got myself through all the, you know, I did go to therapy, of course, but I did that the majority of my life. Um, self-improvement, self-help, those are always things I've been working on because I grew up with a traumatic childhood. So I've always needed some type of help, and I recognize that. Um, but it wasn't until after I could attempted suicide that uh the light really turned on for me that I kept seeking things to help me and fix me, and really it was just my perspective. I had to change my outlook on life in the world, and that's what made the difference. It made all the difference in the world, it really changed my life to a degree I could never give enough credit, frankly. And um, while I was able to do what you talked about in dating, right? I I knew in two weeks that I wanted to marry my wife, um, because I did all of that stuff. Now, I don't have the wherewithal, or I never really thought about putting it into a context that I could teach other people to do it because you know I don't know that the way that I did it work would work for everyone. So I'm glad you know they have an option like you, someone like you, to help help walk people through something like that. Uh, but I definitely knew what I needed to find and what I needed to look for. And I also give a lot of credit to online dating because that physical factor that really gets in your way and makes you ignore red flags and things that you know may otherwise make you realize this might not be the right relationship for me. That wasn't there for me, that was gone. She was in a different country. All we had was to get to know each other on an intellectual level, and she is, like you said, my best friend. I love spending time with her every single day. A lot of times I wish I could spend more time with her. I've never felt that way about a woman before, ever. So uh yeah, it's it's incredible um to have that kind of relationship when you know what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_03: 36:45

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, again, is for those listening, uh, you know, here's two guys. We've been in the pit of despair, we know what that's like. Um, and and certainly we've been through alimony, child support, visitation rights, family court, uh, probably ED, uh parents and assisted living facilities, menopause, all that kind of stuff, all that juicy stuff that happens in midlife. Uh not juicy, but um and and and what I wanna I wanna kind of, if it's okay, kind of end on this note, yeah, is that um your outlook plays what you said, Brandon, the outlook you have plays such a role. And when you're in the pit of despair, you may not feel the outlook in front of you. And and there was a a Disney quote that um that was my my motto from uh when I was in the pit of despair. And it was so simple. I remember watching the movie Meet the Robinsons, and it was the quote was keep moving forward. And I don't know why, but that really stuck in my head. Just keep moving forward. In other words, just I woke up every day going, today could be something better. That's all I did was today could be something better. Just that little bit of hope. And some days it was in the tank, but some days it was better. And then I go, wow, I had a really great day. Maybe tomorrow, you know, then I wake up the next day. Hey, maybe it can be better like it was yesterday. And sure enough, it was a little better like yesterday. And again, incrementally. But then I look back a year and I go, wow, that was actually a lot better than where I was a year ago. And so the mindset, the outlook that you talked about earlier is what got me through it. And that little quote, just keep moving forward. And you know, I I could, you know, I share that with everyone. Whatever works for you, find one little mantra that you can hold on to, even if it's you feel like the world is against you, just find one little mantra um and have have have faith in it because you know, if we just keep moving forward, I I think in a long enough continuum, the the bad turns into good.

SPEAKER_00: 39:05

Yeah, I I agree with everything so much. And to piggyback off that, as we come to a close, I you know, everyone talks about this, and sometimes you know, things are easier said than done. But being thankful for the good things, you know, gratitude, being grateful, if you really, really focus on the good things you have in life and give those your bigger priority and your bigger bigger sense of worth, and much less to the negative things that happen. And the problem that I had before was I expected my life to be great, I expected it to be great and perfect. So when bad things happened, I gave it so much weight, so much value, right? And now I do the opposite. So that's it's so important to just minimize those bad things as much as you can and realize it will pass. Tomorrow's another day, whatever mantra you want to use, like you said, um, it really makes a huge difference, just that outlook.

SPEAKER_03: 40:15

Um absolutely, and gratitude is, and I'm glad you you pointed that out because I'm I'm remiss in not saying the same thing because uh I I I want to piggyback sitting gratitude is a powerful force for shift in in your lifestyle. So be find the things to be grateful for and focus on that.

SPEAKER_00: 40:42

Yeah, and I'm sure you know unless you're in the worst pit like we were at one point in our life, you probably have a lot to be grateful for, you know, when you're looking around at where you're at and what you have in life.

SPEAKER_02: 40:57

Amen to that.

SPEAKER_00: 40:58

Well, Jonathan, thank you for uh sharing all your thoughts and being on my podcast. Uh, I love your personality and your attitude and and just the way you see life. Um, your book is what the heck is self-love anyway. Uh anything else you want to add before we get out of here?

SPEAKER_03: 41:22

Uh you know, I gave away the stuff that I always say at the end, I said a few moments ago. Right. Um, you know, I I I I can't really overemphasize having trust. In other words, have have a like have faith and trust that you'll get through this. I know it's like a leap of faith. Just it's kind of like build it and they will come. Just trust that tomorrow will be better. And if you just have faith that tomorrow will be better, trust tomorrow will be better in that concept of build that they will come, it will be better. I can promise you that. Or I can't promise it, but I I feel strongly about it.

SPEAKER_00: 42:04

Yeah, I I mean it you can't promise anything, but it's definitely most likely the way things will work out for you. You build it, they will come. I say, you know, just keep doing the right things. Those are the words I use. Keep doing the right things, don't give in to your demons, whether it's negativity, whether it's alcoholism, whether whatever that demon could be. Don't give in to it, do the right things, and things will work out for you in the end.

SPEAKER_03: 42:34

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_00: 42:36

So uh thank you again, Jonathan, for being here. Uh, I love this conversation. Great conversation. I hope anyone who is going through anything can respect and appreciate what we've had to say here today. And uh get Jonathan's book, What the Heck is Self-Love Anyway, on Amazon. And how else can people reach you, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_03: 43:01

So my name is listed right here. Just cut and paste it, put it in Google. The first thing that will show up is my YouTube channel. Right that after that will show up my website. My book will show up. You can certainly follow me on social media as well. Just cut and paste my name. Uh, and if it resonates with you and you want to connect with me, schedule a discovery call with me to see if working with a coach is right for you.

SPEAKER_00: 43:25

There you go. And uh, I of course will have your name in the uh text of this podcast. And for me, as always, go to brandonhell.com and click on subscribe to podcast and support the show. That would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to reach people who are looking for help, who are struggling in life and want self-improvement and self-help. That's what we're here for. That's what we're trying to do. So please go ahead and do that. Um, also, I do have a sponsor now, and it is uh Get Manly without the A. So get M N L Y. And it's a phenomenal supplement company that takes a blood test uh for men, obviously, get manly, and uh they tell you what you're deficient in in your in your uh minerals and supplements, and they send a program for you to take exactly what you need in amounts, morning, afternoon, and night, and it's just a phenomenal program. There's no guesswork involved of how how many milligrams or grams of something you might think you need because a doctor told you it's all done for you in the blood work and they make it easy. So getmanly.com. And as always, I want to thank you for listening and giving us your most precious resource, which is time. I never take that for granted, so thank you for giving us your time. And this has been Brandon Held. Life is crazy, and I'll talk to you next time.